Editing Fish


'''WARNING: Do not cite this page as a reference. This page is on this wikispace only to make the content "searchable" and easier to find. If you find the information you seek here, go to the original sources to verify the information and use them for your documentation.'''
''<span style="background-color: #eef3f6; color: #222222; font-family: monospace;">Revised {$revisiondate}.</span>''
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See also [[Sea Creatures]]

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==<span style="line-height: 1.5;">Illustrations:</span>== 
===<span style="line-height: 1.5;"> Period:</span>=== 
====Rays:==== 
{| class="wikitable"
| [[File:MacclesfieldPsalter_c1330_skate.JPG|272x214px|Macclesfield]] 
| [[File:PierpointMorganMA3900_f47_early1590s_manta.JPG|283x231px|Pierpoint]]   
|-
| Macclesfield Psalter c1330, skate
| Pierpoint Morgan MA3900 f47, early 1590s, manta ra
|}

====Attired fish, winged fish, fish head:==== 
{| class="wikitable"
| [[File:Siebmacher_plate064_stagfish.jpg|Siebmacher]] 
| http://www.sofyalarus.info/heraldicart/Armorial-de-Gelre1370wingedfish.JPG
| [[File:Siebmacher_plate069-vonsenitz-wingedfish.jpg|Siebmacher,]] 
| http://www.sofyalarus.info/heraldicart/BSBCsg9210_f72r_ululantfishhead.jpg 
|-
| Siebmacher 1605, plate 63, Die Gutten, stag fish
| Armorial de Gelre, 1370, winged fish
| Siebmacher, 1605, plate 69, winged fish
| BSB Csg 9210 Grunenburg Wappenbuch, 1602-04, f72r, fish head ululant ?
|}

====Dolphin, sardines on a bend, woman windsurfing a fish:==== 
{| class="wikitable"
| [[File:BSBCsg9210_f68_dolphin-elephant.PNG|Grunenberg]] 
| [[File:LivroArmeiro_f129_Sardinha.jpg|Livro]] 
| http://www.sofyalarus.info/heraldicart/BSBCsg9210_f03_fish-surfing-lady.PNG
|-
| Grunenberg Wappenbuch, BSB Csg 9210, 1602-04, f68, dolphin vs. elephant-fish vs sea-elephant
| Livro do Armeiro Mor, 1506-09, Portugal, f129, river of sardines
| BSB Csg 9210, Grunenberg Wappenbuch, 1602-04, f03, fish surfing lady
|}

====Fish interlaced, fish on a stringer, fish skeleton:==== 
{| class="wikitable"
| http://www.sofyalarus.info/heraldicart/Guillim1611_fish-interlaced.jpg 
| https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11043015_10205847119919122_4506321123448156180_n.jpg?oh=e4e89a4f4260dee5041852ac6698fea3&oe=55DB7721
| [[File:Siebmacher_plate197_fishskeleton.jpg|Siebmacher]] 
|-
| Fish interlaced
| Siebmacher 1605, stringer of fish and fleurs, FB image courtesy of Rayne Evynwod.
| Siebmacher Plate 197, fish skeleton
|}

===Modern:=== 
====PicDic:==== 
<span style="display: block; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">
* <span style="font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">''<span style="background-color: #edf6fe; color: #333333; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[http://mistholme.com/dictionary/fish/|Fish]]</span>, </span>//<span style="background-color: #edf6fe; color: #333333; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;">see: </span>'''<span style="background-color: #edf6fe; color: #333333; font-family: Verdana,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http://mistholme.com/dictionary/barbel/|barbel]]</span>, <span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http://mistholme.com/dictionary/calamarie/|calamarie]]</span>, <span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http://mistholme.com/dictionary/crab/|crab]]</span>, <span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http://mistholme.com/dictionary/dolphin/|dolphin]]</span>, <span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http://mistholme.com/dictionary/eel/|eel]]</span>, <span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http://mistholme.com/dictionary/lucy/|lucy]]</span>, <span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http://mistholme.com/dictionary/sea-horse/|sea-horse (natural)]]</span>, <span style="color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[@http:''mistholme.com/dictionary/whale/|whale]]</span>.</span>'''</span>
</span>
{|
|   ||   ||   
|-
| http:''mistholme.com/dictionary/barbel/ || http://mistholme.com/dictionary/dolphin/ || http:''mistholme.com/dictionary/fish/ 
|}



====Brickbat's Armorial Stash:==== 
* <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://atensubmissions.nexiliscom.com/HeraldicArtBits.shtml]]:</span>

====[[Pennsic Traceable Art Project]]==== 

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==<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">'''SENA Appendix L:'''</span>== 
==='''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">A Partial List of Postures and Orientations</span>'''=== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">This is a list of postures and orientations that can be used to determine whether two charges or groups of charges conflict or whether there is a distinct change for posture/orientation.</span>
===='''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Animate Charges</span>'''==== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">D. Fish: The postures listed within each group generally conflict, though a distinct change may be given for facing to dexter or to sinister.</span>
* <span style="background-color: #ffffff;">haurient, urinant</span>
* <span style="background-color: #ffffff;">naiant</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">F. Sea creatures and other Erect-Default Creatures: This category is for sea creatures and other creatures whose default is erect. The postures listed within each group generally conflict.</span>
* <span style="background-color: #ffffff;">erect</span>

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==Precedents:== 
Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - [[http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/precedents.html]]
Morsulus Heralds Website - [[http://www.morsulus.org/]] (to search the LoARs and Precedents)
Restatement Wiki - [[http://yehudaheraldry.com/restatement/index.php?title=Main_Page]] (restatements of Precedents)
'''''Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents.'''''

====<u>'''Definition:'''</u>==== 

===='''December 2013 - dolphin posture:'''==== 
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman';">From Wreath: Dancing Dolphins</span>
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">This month a ruling had us examining heraldic dolphins more closely. Precedent has long held that there is no DC for the difference in facing of a dolphin to dexter or sinister when it is haurient or urinant (in a vertical orientation). This precedent traces back to a ruling made in May 1992:</span>
> [a dolphin urinant contourny versus a dolphin urinant] There is...nothing for reversing the fish in this position... [Isabeau Bonheur, R-Caid, May 1992 LoAR]
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">The Glossary of Terms states that the default posture for a heraldic dolphin is naiant (in a horizontal orientation). It says nothing about whether or not the body is straight, embowed, or embowed-counterembowed, and we do not typically grant difference for these variations. A random examination of registrations both old and recent show that the typical depiction for heraldic dolphins is embowed-counterembowed, as expected, and so we are explicitly adding that to the default posture for heraldic dolphins, regardless of their orientation on the field.</span>
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">... If the dolphin is drawn in such a manner that it is difficult to tell which way it is facing, as in the May 1992 submission, it will be returned for redraw.</span>
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/12/13-12cl.html

===='''September 2011 - manta ray default posture:'''==== 
[[#70]]Tiberius Octavius Bellicianus. Per chevron inverted Or and gules, in chief a manta ray bendwise sable.
...The use of the posture ''tergiant'' is a step from period practice for most fish, but it is the default posture for flat fish such as skates and rays.
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/09/11-09lar.html


===<u>'''Registerability (Restricted, Reserved, SFPP, OOP):'''</u>=== 

===='''September 2011 - manta ray:'''==== 
[[#70]]Tiberius Octavius Bellicianus. Per chevron inverted Or and gules, in chief a manta ray bendwise sable.
Based on the presentation of evidence of period citations in Europe of manta rays, the use of a manta ray is no longer a step from period practice.
The use of the posture ''tergiant'' is a step from period practice for most fish, but it is the default posture for flat fish such as skates and rays.
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/09/11-09lar.html


===<u>'''Conflict:'''</u>=== 
===='''December 2013 - dolphins facing:'''==== 
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman';">From Wreath: Dancing Dolphins</span>
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">This month a ruling had us examining heraldic dolphins more closely. Precedent has long held that there is no DC for the difference in facing of a dolphin to dexter or sinister when it is haurient or urinant (in a vertical orientation). This precedent traces back to a ruling made in May 1992:</span>
> [a dolphin urinant contourny versus a dolphin urinant] There is...nothing for reversing the fish in this position... [Isabeau Bonheur, R-Caid, May 1992 LoAR]
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">...</span>
<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">An examination of the two devices in conflict in May 1992 shows that while the registered dolphin was embowed-counterembowed, the submitted one was nearly straight. It does seem reasonable to grant no difference for the facing to dexter or sinister for a straight fish haurient or urinant. However, as a well-drawn dolphin has a distinct head, even when the degree of embowing is small, we are able to tell in which direction it is facing; therefore we are explicitly overturning precedent with regards to dolphins, and will grant difference for facing. This is analogous to our ruling in July 2013, that granted a DC between haurient or urinant as "dolphins have a distinct enough head to distinguish whether the head is to chief, as in haurient, or to base, as in urinant." If the dolphin is drawn in such a manner that it is difficult to tell which way it is facing, as in the May 1992 submission, it will be returned for redraw.</span>
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/12/13-12cl.html

===<span style="background-color: #ffffff;"><u>'''Identifiability:'''</u></span>=== 


==='''<u>Collected Precedents:</u>'''=== 
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Tenure of Elisabeth de Rossignol (May 2005 - July 2008)</span>'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"> - </span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">[[http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/elisabeth/armory.html#FISH|FISH and DOLPHIN and WHALE]]</span>
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The 2nd Tenure of François la Flamme (October 2004 - May 2005) - </span>'''<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">[[http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/sca/armoryprec.html#FISH|FISH and DOLPHIN]]</span>
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Shauna of Carrick Point (May 2004 - August 2004) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of François la Flamme (August 2001 - April 2004) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Elsbeth Anne Roth (June 1999 - July 2001) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Jaelle of Armida (June 1996 - June 1999) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The 2nd Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (November 1993 - June 1996) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme (June 1992 - October 1993) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The 1st Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (June 1990 - June 1992) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane (September 1986 - June 1990) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Baldwin of Erebor (August 1984 - August 1986) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Wilhelm von Schlüssel (August 1979 - August 1984) - </span>'''[[http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/wilhelm/atoc.html#angelfish|ANGELFISH]]
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Karina of the Far West (December 1975 - June 1979) - </span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Early Days (June 1971 - June 1975) - </span>'''

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==<u>'''In the Ordinary'''</u>:== 
* Fish - Alewife - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=FISH%2dANGELFISH|Fish - Angelfish]]
* Fish - Catfish - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Crab - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/A.html#arthropodlobster|Arthropod - Lobster]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=DOLPHIN%3a1|Fish - Dolphin - 1]] (includes mahi mahi)
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=DOLPHIN%3a2|Fish - Dolphin - 2]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=DOLPHIN%3a3%20or%20more|Fish - Dolphin - 3 or more]]
* Fish - Herring - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Lobster - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/A.html#arthropodlobster|Arthropod - Lobster]]
* Fish - Lucy - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Marlin - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Mollusk - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/M.html#mollusk|Mollusk]]
* Fish - Narwhal - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishwhale|Fish - Whale]]
* Fish - Octopus - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/M.html#molluskoctopus|Mollusk - Octopus]]
* Fish - Orca - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishwhale|Fish - Whale]]
* Fish - Perch - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Pike - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]] [[#fishray]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=FISH%2dRAY|Fish - Ray]]
* Fish - Roach - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Sailfin - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Salmon - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Sculpin - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]] [[#fishseahorse]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=FISH%2dSEAHORSE|Fish - Seahorse]]
* Fish - Shark - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Stingray - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishray|Fish - Ray]]
* Fish - Swordfish - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]]
* Fish - Trout - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/F.html#fishother|Fish - Other]] [[#fishwhale]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=FISH%2dWHALE|Fish - Whale]] [[#fishother]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=FISH8OTHER|Fish - Other]]
* Fish fin - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/B.html#bodypart|Body part]]
* Fish hook - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/H.html#hook|Hook]]
[[#fishother]][[#fishwhale]][[#fishseahorse]][[#fishray]][[#fishdolphin]][[#fishangelfish]]