Editing Gaelic Names

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'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff; line-height: 1.5;">WARNING: Do not cite this page as a reference. This page is on this wikispace only to make the content "searchable" and easier to find. If you find the information you seek here, go to the original sources to verify the information and use them for your documentation.</span>'''
''<span style="background-color: #eef3f6; color: #222222; font-family: monospace;">Revised {$revisiondate}.</span>''
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=Information:= 
==<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Saying <name> wife of <name> in Irish:</span>== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
* <span style="color: #222222; line-height: 1.5;">Academy of S. Gabriel Report #2817 (</span><span style="color: #1155cc; line-height: 1.5;">[[@http://www.s-gabriel.org/2817]]</span><span style="color: #222222; line-height: 1.5;"> ) has a number of examples - primarily 16th C.</span>
* <syntaxhighlight>
Maire inghean Chuinn I Neill, bean t-Somhairle Buidhe Mec Domhnaill
Mo/r inghe_n Aodha mic Pilib na Tuaighe Me/g Uidhir be_n Airt mic Eoghain Ui/ Ne/ill
Mor inghean I Briain (.i. Toirrdhealbhach mac Taidhcc) bean Donnchaidh mic Mathghamhna I Briain
Mo/r inghe_n Donnchaidh, mic Se_ain, mic Maol Ruanaidh na Fe/so/icce mic Taidhcc Ui/ Ce_rbhaill, ben Mheic     Ui/ Bhriain Ara
Sadhbh, ingen Mhic Gaffraigh, .i. ben Cathail Moir Mic Magnusa
Sadb ingen Ui Duibgendain, ben Ghillacoluim mic Maol Muire mic Briain O/ig
Grainne ingh_en Me/g Uidhir (.i. Emann) be_n Pilip mic T Toirrdhealbhaigh
Ingen Mhe/g Uidhir, .i. Gra/ine, ingen Emhuinn Mhe/g Uidhir, ben Pilib, mic Toirrdelbaigh Mhe/g Uidhir
Graine Og, ingin Ui Uiginn, .i. ben Fedhli/m Ui Doibhilen
Grainne inghe_n Maghnusa, mic Aodha, mic Aodha Ruaidh be_n Ui/ Ruairc Brian mac Eocchain
Finnghuala inghen Ruaidri Oicc meic Ruaidri Caoich ben hSeain meic Taidc meic Briain Meic Donnchada
Gormlaidh inghe_n Ui/ Dhomhnaill (Aodh Ruadh) be_n Aodha mic Neill mic Cuinn I Ne/ill
Lasairfhina, ingen Tomais Moir, Mic Briain Mic Maghnusa, ben Domnaill h-Ui Ceothain
</syntaxhighlight>
* <span style="color: #222222; line-height: 1.5;">Earlier examples (14th and 15th C) are found in Report #2501 (</span><span style="color: #1155cc; line-height: 1.5;">[[@http://www.s-gabriel.org/2501]]</span><span style="color: #222222; line-height: 1.5;">).</span>
* <syntaxhighlight>
The following appear to identify Irish Gaelic women married to English men [7]:
  Fionnghuala ingen Ui/ Cheallaigh ben Meic Uilliam Bu/rc, 1379
  Mor inghen Murchadha Ui Madadhain bean Meic Uilliam Cloinne Riocaird (.i. 
    Riocard), 1383
  Mo/r ingen Briain Ui/ Bhriain bean Aater A Bu/rc, 1421
  Ben Mide ingen Domnaill meic Murcertaig ben Tomas Baret, 1422
  Slaine inghen hI Briain ben Meic Uilliam Clainni Ricaird,
    (also recorded as Slaine inghen Ui Bhriain ben Mec Uilliam Cloinne 
     Riocaird), 1481
  Slaine inghean Airt Ui Neill an ben Meic Uilliam Cloinne Riocaird
    (Uillecc mac Uillicc ele), 1498
In each of these cases, the woman's given name is followed by a patronymic 
or clan affiliation and then by a byname that identifies her as her 
husband's wife.  For example:
     Mo/r ingen    Briain     Ui/ Bhriain  bean       Aater  A Bu/rc
     Mor  daughter [of] Brian O'  Brian    wife [of]  Walter Burke
</syntaxhighlight>
</span>
==<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #333333;"> Combining an occupational byname with a patronymic</span>== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande',tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;">i.e. <given name> <occupation> <patronymic> in Middle Irish: </span>[[@http:''medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Topic.shtml#Occupations|http:''medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Topic.shtml#Occupations]].</span>

==<inghean Ui> standard female pattern to establish clan affiliation,== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">“daughter of a male descendant of” using lenitted form of the male name, as found at [[@http:''medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#clanaffiliationbyname|http:''medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/#clanaffiliationbyname]]

</span>
==Adjective as a byname:== 
A few in Mari's index: [[@http:''medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Topic.shtml#Personality|http:''medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Topic.shtml#Personality]]
including some abstract traits, like guile, surliness, and purity,
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
==Gaelic locative bynames:== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #1155cc; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px;">[[@http:''medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Topic.shtml#Locations|http:''medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/Topic.shtml#Locations]]</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px;">Includes one based on a river (the Laune): </span><span style="color: #1155cc; font-size: 12.8px;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/DescriptiveBynames/naLeamhna.shtml]]</span>
</span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
</span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="color: #222222;">See also [[Irish Names]], [[Scottish Names]].</span></span>
----
=Other Potential Sources:= 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">St. Gabriel Scottish Names - <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http:''www.s-gabriel.org/names/scottish.shtml]]</span></span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">St. Gabriel Irish and Manx Names - <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/irish.shtml]]</span></span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"><span style="line-height: 1.5;">St. Gabriel Welsh, Cornish and Breton Names - [[http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/pceltic.shtml]]</span></span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">St. Gabriel Gaulish Names - <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/otherearly.shtml#gaulish|http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/otherearly.shtml#gaulish]]</span></span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">St. Gabriel Pictish Names - <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/otherearly.shtml#pictish|http:''www.s-gabriel.org/names/otherearly.shtml#pictish]]</span></span>
Index of Names in the Irish Annals - [[http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/]]

"100 Most Popular Men's Names in Early Medieval Ireland" by Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Heather Rose Jones) - http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/irish100.html

A Manx Notebook - <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/]]</span>

Early Irish names (about as close as we can get to Manx names right now?) from the Irish Annals - <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/501-700.shtml]] and </span>
<span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Feminine/701-1050.shtml]] .</span>

Celtic Inscribed Stones Project (CISP) on-line database ([[@http:''www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/cisp/database/]]) includes stones in Ogham from the Isle of Man: [[@http://www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/cisp/database/index/site_geog.html#isleofman|http:''www.ucl.ac.uk/archaeology/cisp/database/index/site_geog.html#isleofman]]

The First Thousand Years of British Names - <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/british1000/]]</span>

"Names Found in Anglicized Irish Documents" by Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada (Kathleen M. O'Brien) - http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnglicizedIrish/

CELT (Corpus of Electronic Texts) - http://celt.ucc.ie/publishd.html#tfirish

<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Picts and their Placenames - free download at - [[http://www.groamhouse.org.uk/index.asp?pageid=41172]]</span>

<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">P-Celtic in Southern Scotland and Cumbria: a review of the place-name evidence for possible Pictish phonology -</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[http://www.clanntuirc.co.uk/JSNS/V7/JSNS7%20James.pdf]]</span>

Academy of St. Gabriel "Medieval Names Archive" - [[http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/]]
Database of medieval names (from the Medieval Names Archive) - [[http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/database/]]
Laurel Name Articles - [[http:''heraldry.sca.org/laurel/names/|http:''heraldry.sca.org/laurel/]]
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #500050; display: block; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">
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=<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">SENA Appendix A: Patterns That Do Not Need Further Documentation by Language Group</span>= 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[http:''heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixA|http:''heraldry.sca.org/sena.html#AppendixA]] (as of 12 October 2013)</span>

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">'''Gaelic'''</span>
{|
|   || '''Double Given Names''' || '''Locative''' || '''Patronymic''' || '''Other relationship''' || '''Descriptive/'''
|}


'''Occupational''' {|
| '''Dictus''' || '''Double Bynames''' || '''Order''' 
|-
| '''Pictish''' ||   ||   || Marked; ''mac// B or//filius// B "son of B";//filia B// "daughter of B" || nephew, //nepos'' B ||   ||   ||   || given+by 
|-
| '''Oghamic (c.500-c.700)''' || No ||   || Marked; ''maqqas'' B "son of b";
|}


''inigena'' B "daughter of B {|
|   || Descriptive || No ||   || given+byname 
|-
| '''Old/Middle Gaelic (before c.1200)''' || No || Rare || Marked; ''mac'' B
|}


"son of B"

''ingen'' B "daughter of B" {|
| Clan affiliation; two-generation patronymics; "wife of" for women || Descriptive; rarely occupational || No || Multi-generational, descriptive and patronymic || Varied; see articles below 
|-
| '''Early Modern Gaelic'''
|}


'''(after c.1200)''' {|
| No || Rare || Marked; ''mac'' B "son of B,"
|}


''inghean'' B "daughter of B" {|
| Clan affiliation; two-generation patronymics; "wife of" for women || Descriptive; rarely occupational || No || Multi-generational, descriptive and patronymic || Varied; see articles below 
|-
| '''Scots Gaelic''' || No || Rare || marked; ''mac'' B "son of B"
|}


''ingen// or //inghean'' B "daughter of B" {|
| Two-generation patronymics; "wife of" for women || Descriptive; rarely occupational || No || Multi-generational, descriptive and patronymic || given+pat
|}


given+descrip+pat

given+pat+descrip

given+pat+pat {|
|
|-
|
|-
|<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">'''Notes''':</span>
|}


<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">Pictish: Please refer to Tangwystl verch Mogrant Glasvryn, "A Consideration of Pictish Names" (<span style="color: #006600;">[[@http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/tangwystyl/pictnames/]]</span>).</span>

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">Oghamic: Please refer to Mari Elspeth nic Bryan, Index of Names in Irish Annals (<span style="color: #006600;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/]]</span>).</span>

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">Old/Middle Gaelic: For appropriate spellings, refer to Mari Elspeth nic Bryan , Index of Names in Irish Annals (<span style="color: #006600;">[[@http:''medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/]]</span>). For structure, please refer to Effric Neyn Ken3ocht Mcherrald, "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names" (<span style="color: #006600;">[[@http:''medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/]]</span>).</span>

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">Early Modern Gaelic: Please refer to Effric Neyn Ken3ocht Mcherrald, "Quick and Easy Gaelic Names" (<span style="color: #006600;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/quickgaelicbynames/]]</span>) for more details on Gaelic names.</span>

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">Scots Gaelic: Please refer to Effric Neyn Ken3ocht Mcherrald, "A Simple Guide to Constructing 12th Century Scottish Gaelic Names" (<span style="color: #006600;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/scotnames/simplescotgaelicnames12.shtml]]</span>).</span>

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">All patronymics are created using the genitive form of the father's name. Byname elements may need to have their spelling modified to soften the pronunciation (lenited) or change the grammar. For guidance on when lenition is required, please refer to Effric Neyn Ken3ocht Mcherrald, "The Spelling of Lenited Consonants in Gaelic" (<span style="color: #006600;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/scotlang/lenition.shtml]]</span>).</span>

<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">Accents may be used or omitted as long as it is done consistently. Capitalization is inconsistent in period records, but must match a period pattern.</span>
</span>
----
='''<span style="font-size: 1.1em; line-height: 1.5;">SENA Appendix C: Regional Naming Groups and Their Mixes</span>'''= 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[http:''heraldry.sca.org/laurel/sena.html#AppendixC|http:''heraldry.sca.org/laurel/sena.html#AppendixC]]</span>
{|
| '''Regional Groups:''' || '''By Time Period:''' || '''Languages Included In This Group:''' || '''Can Be Combined With Groups:''' 
|-
| '''Gaelic''' || 550-1100 || <span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Old Irish Gaelic, Middle Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, Oghamic Irish, Pictish, etc.</span> || <span style="background-color: #ffffff;">English/Welsh</span>
|-
|<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Scandinavian</span> 
|-
|^   || 1100-1600 || <span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Middle Irish Gaelic, Early Modern Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, etc.</span> || <span style="background-color: #ffffff;">English/Welsh</span> 
|-
|}

=Precedents:= 
Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - [[http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/precedents.html]]</span>

Morsulus Heralds Website - [[http://www.morsulus.org/]] (to search the LoARs and Precedents)</span>

''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">'''Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents.'''</span>''


=='''Collected Precedents of the SCA: Gaelic (Irish, Manx, Scottish)'''== 
* <span style="font-size: 1.1em; line-height: 1.5;">[[http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/Gaelic.html]]</span>

=='''Collected Precedents of the SCA: Ogham (pre-Gaelic Irish)'''== 
* <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/Ogham.html]]</span>

=='''Collected Precedents of the SCA: Pictish -'''== 
* <span style="line-height: 1.5;">[[http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/Pictish.html]]</span>

==June 2021 CL - From Pelican: Apostrophes in Manx Bynames==
This month we considered the Manx byname O'Fayle. Previous precedent has only allowed use of the apostrophe in Anglicized Irish bynames: "Anglicized Irish bynames were written both with and without an apostrophe after the O. For example, "Names Found in Anglicized Irish Documents," by Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada (http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnglicizedIrish/) lists both Arte O Neale and Arte O'Neale."

Both the Anglicized Irish and the Manx records on which our data is based were written by English speakers rendering Gaelic/Manx names phonetically. These names sometimes included the apostrophe and sometimes they did not. Therefore, as of this writing, we hereby extend this precedent to explicitly rule that Manx bynames may be registered with or without an apostrophe after the O.

https://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2021/06/21-06cl.html#11


===November 2016 - : inghean mhic and ingen meic in Gaelic*=== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px;">Over the last several months, there has been some confusion about the pattern *inghean mhic B* in Gaelic. Although it does not appear in Appendix A, it is a registerable pattern for female Gaelic bynames because it is found throughout the various pre-1650 Gaelic Annals. This pattern is used either in simple patronymic bynames when the father's name starts with *Mac-* or to state a grandparent relationship. Thus, *Sorcha inghean Mhic Beatha* denotes *Sorcha*, daughter of a man with the given name Mac Betha. *Sorcha inghean Mhic Cuinn* could be either the grand-daughter of a man named *Conn* or the daughter of a man named *Mac Cuinn*.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px;">The standard post-1200 form is *inghean mhic B*, where B represents the male ancestor's name. The pre-1200 form is found in the Annals as either *ingen meic B* or* ingean mic B*.</span>
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2016/11/16-11cl.html

==='''Sept 2013 - Mac vs. Mc:'''=== 
From Pelican: Reconsidering Mac and Mc (and ending up at the same place)
In September 2007, Pelican ruled that Mc and M' were scribal abbreviations for Mac and hence unregisterable. Since then, we have found considerable quantities of new Scots language and Anglicized Irish data. Thus, we revisited the question of whether Mc was only an abbreviation through 1600, or if it had begun to take on life as an independent element. Alys Mackyntoich did considerable research in the Records of the Parliaments of Scotland, all of which suggested that Mc remained a variant of (and presumably abbreviation of) Mac until after the end of our period. Thus, we will not change precedent: both Mc and M' will be expanded to Mac for registration purposes. Individuals with names expanded to Mac should of course feel free to use abbreviated forms like Mc and M' as documentary forms of their name.
[[http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/09/13-09cl.html]]


==='''Dec 2012 - Gaelic Matronymics:'''=== 
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;"> From Pelican: Gaelic Matronymics </span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Under the Rules for Submissions, matronymics in Gaelic were a step from period</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">practice because they were relatively rare and seem to have only appeared in</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">descriptions after a patronymic byname. Under the Standards for Evaluation,</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">steps from period practice no longer exist in names. Instead, each pattern must</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">be ruled registerable (and compatible with period practice) or unregisterable.</span>

<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">We hereby rule matronymics in Gaelic compatible with period practice. This is</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">based on two lines of evidence. The first is the number of examples using</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">matronymic descriptions/bynames in the Annals. More details about these names</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">can be seen in Mari Elspeth nic Bryan's "Index of Names in Irish Annals:</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Matronymic Bynames"</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">(</span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #1155cc; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">[[@http://medievalscotland.org/kmo/AnnalsIndex/Matronymic.shtml]]</span><span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">). This is further</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">supported by Anglicized Irish sources that have Gaelic-derived matronymic</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">bynames. Diademe was able to identify a few from "Names Found in Anglicized</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">Irish Documents" by Mari ingen Briain meic Donnchada. Two examples are</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">_Katherine ny Joan ny Acheim_ and _Andrew m'Grany fitz James_ (where Grany is a</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">spelling of Grainne). Given this variety of data, matronymic bynames in Gaelic</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; color: #222222; font-family: arial,sans-serif;">will remain registerable.</span>
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/12/12-12cl.html

==='''Aug 2012 - patronymic forms:'''=== 
Siobhán inghean mhic Ríoghnaigh. Name." Submitted as ''Siobhán <u>nic__ Ríoghn__ach__//, the byname has two issues. First, the particle //nic//, which is a modern form of //inghean mhic//, is not known to have been used in Gaelic in period (though it is used in Scots). Therefore, this byname cannot be registered using //nic//. Second, the matronym //Ríoghnach// is the nominative form of the name. The byname requires the genitive (possessive) form, to make the meaning "Ríoghnach's granddaughter". That form is //Ríoghn__aigh</u>//. The change to the documented //inghean mhic Ríoghnaigh'' is a major change. The forms said the submitter would not allow major changes; however, the submitter authorized the change in order to register the name."
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/08/12-08lar.html

==='''April 2012 - Mac and O:'''=== 
From Pelican: Mac and O bynames
In Gaelic and Anglicized Irish, one question that often arises is when bynames constructed using ''mac// can be used to create bynames using //O// and vice versa (recalling that in Gaelic, //mac// and //O'' are only used in men's bynames). The reason one cannot simply treat the two as interchangeable is that each type of byname has different limitations.
Bynames using ''mac// "son of" were formed throughout our period. They were formed from given names and from a few types of bynames, most notably occupational bynames. Bynames using //O'' "male descendant (usually grandson)" were formed from the 7th to the 11th century; then they became frozen as inherited family names. These names were formed from a variety of kinds of bynames as well as given names.
So, what does this mean in terms of construction and documentation? Most of our documentation for bynames is from the 16th century. If you have a byname documented using ''mac// and want to use it to justify a byname using //O//, you need to find evidence that the name was in use by the 11th century. Otherwise, the name came into use too late in period to justify its use in a byname using //O//. If you have a byname using //O// and want to use it to justify a byname using //mac//, you need to know what kind of element it is. If it's a given name, you can make a byname using //mac// from it. Some occupational bynames can be used to create a byname using //mac//. Other kinds of bynames using //O//, including elements that we cannot identify as either a given name or an occupational byname, cannot be used to create a byname using //mac''.
[[http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2012/04/12-04cl.html]]

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