Saltire, Per Saltire, In Saltire: Difference between revisions

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'''WARNING: Do not cite this page as a reference. This page is on this wikispace only to make the content "searchable" and easier to find. If you find the information you seek here, go to the original sources as linked below to verify the information and use them for your documentation.'''
'''WARNING: Do not cite this page as a reference. This page is on this wiki only to make the content "searchable" and easier to find. If you find the information you seek here, go to the original sources as linked below to verify the information and use them for your documentation.'''
''<span style="background-color: #eef3f6; color: #222222; font-family: monospace;">Revised {$revisiondate}.</span>''
 
----
 
=Illustrations:=  
=Illustrations:=  
==Period source/s:==
==Period source/s:==
Line 19: Line 19:


==Modern==
==Modern==
'''Pictorial Dictionary of SCA Heraldry (3rd edition):'''
===Pictorial Dictionary of SCA Heraldry (3rd edition):===
<span style="display: block; font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">
* [http://mistholme.com/dictionary/saltire/ Saltire]
* <span style="font-family: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">''<span style="background-color: #edf6fe; color: #123b66; font-family: inherit; text-decoration: none; vertical-align: baseline;">[[http://mistholme.com/dictionary/saltire/|Saltire]]</span>''</span>
 
</span>
[[Pennsic Traceable Art Project]]
 
 
=Sources:=
* Academy of St. Gabriel "Medieval Heraldry Archive" - http://www.s-gabriel.org/heraldry/
* Archive of St. Gabriel reports - [[http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/archive.cgi]]
* Laurel Armory Articles - http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/armory_articles.html
 
 
* New Heraldic Primer (Heraldry for Non-Heralds) - http://heraldry.sca.org/armory/newprimer/
* Pictorial Dictionary of Heraldry (PicDic), 3rd Edition - http://mistholme.com/pictorial-dictionary-of-heraldry
* [[Period Armorials]]
 
 
* Parker's Heraldry - http://karlwilcox.com/parker/
* Riestap's ''Armorial Général - //http:''www.euraldic.com/lasu/bl/bl_a_aa.html
 
 
=Precedents:=
Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/precedents.html
 
Morsulus Heralds Website - http://www.morsulus.org/ (to search the LoARs and Precedents)
 
'' '''Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents.'' '''
 
==Definition:==
===June 2013 Cover Letter - Handling Pairs and Sheaves in Arrangements===
Commenters were asked to discuss how best to handle sheaves or pairs of charges combined with other charges in the same charge group. SENA A3D2c requires charges in a group to be in identical postures/orientations or in an arrangement that includes posture/orientation. It also states, "A charge group in which postures for different charges must be blazoned individually will not be allowed without period examples of that combination of postures." Precedent has said, "The charges here do not have comparable postures or orientations, but they also are not in a unified standard arrangement, as the two chisels in saltire must be blazoned separately from the crab in order to adequately describe their positioning. [William the Myllwright, R-Atenveldt, Dec 2012 LoAR]" However, does this precedent follow period practice? Commenters dug through many different armorials across all of Europe to find out.


<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Brickbat's Armorial Stash - [[http://atensubmissions.nexiliscom.com/HeraldicArtBits.shtml]]:</span>
Most cases of pairs of charges have a single pair of identical charges in saltire as the sole primary charge group. There were also examples of multiple pairs of identical charges in the same charge group. More uncommon were examples of non-identical charges in saltire, most typically a key or a sword and another charge, as they tended to be ecclesiastically related. There were no examples found of multiple pairs of non-identical charges in the same charge group.


<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[scaheraldry/Pennsic Traceable Art Project|Pennsic Traceable Art Project]]</span>
For an example of multiple pairs of charges in the same design, the arms of the Worshipful Company of Fishmongers, granted in 1512, are Azure, three dolphins naiant embowed in pale argent finned toothed and crowned Or between two pairs of stockfish in saltire argent over the mouth of each fish a crown Or, on a chief gules three pairs of keys of St Peter in saltire.


----
Most cases of a sheaf of charges were sheaves of arrows. There were other examples of three identical charges arranged in a sheaf, and a few example of two charges in saltire surmounted by a different charge palewise, again typically ecclesiastical in nature, such as two keys in saltire surmounted by a crozier. Again, the vast majority of examples were of a single sheaf as the sole primary charge group.


===<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[#x--Sources:]]Sources:</span>===
For an example of multiple sheaves of charges in the same design, the arms of Nicholas Robinson, Bishop of Bangor from 1566-1585, are given by Parker as Azure, a chevron between three sheaves of arrows argent.<
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Academy of St. Gabriel "Medieval Heraldry Archive" - [[http://www.s-gabriel.org/heraldry/]]</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Archive of St. Gabriel reports - [[http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/archive.cgi]]</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Laurel Armory Articles - [[http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/armory_articles.html]]</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[scaheraldry/Period Armorials|Period Armorials]]</span>


----
It is tempting to consider a sheaf of charges as a single charge, but it is not: it has long been considered as heraldic shorthand for two charges in saltire surmounted by a third charge palewise, and the charges that make up the sheaf are counted individually for purposes of differencing by number. Likewise, while it is tempting to consider a pair of charges in saltire as a single charge, it is not; it is clearly two separate charges arranged in saltire. However, SENA A3D2c does not concern counting charges, merely their placement upon the field in a period arrangement.
===<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[#x--Precedents:]]Precedents:</span>===
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - [[http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/precedents.html]]</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Morsulus Heralds Website - [[http://www.morsulus.org/]] (to search the LoARs and Precedents)</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Restatement Wiki - [[http://yehudaheraldry.com/restatement/index.php?title=Main_Page]] (restatements of Precedents)</span>
''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">'''Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents.'''</span>''


====<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[#x--Precedents:-Definition:]]<u>'''Definition:'''</u></span>====
Given the period examples, we are overturning past precedent forbidding the combination of a charge and two other charges in saltire, or other similar combinations. We will henceforth treat a pair of charges in saltire and a sheaf of charges as a single unit only for purposes of arrangement under SENA A3D2c. As always, the entire charge group must be in a blazonable period arrangement, such as two and one, in fess, in cross, etc.
http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/06/13-06cl.html


'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">From the June 2013 Cover Letter:</span>'''
==Registerability:==  
<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: 'Times New Roman';">'''From Wreath: Handling Pairs and Sheaves in Arrangements'''</span>
''(Restricted, Reserved, SFPP, OOP)''
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Commenters were asked to discuss how best to handle sheaves or pairs of charges combined with other charges in the same charge group. SENA A3D2c requires charges in a group to be in identical postures/orientations or in an arrangement that includes posture/orientation. It also states, "A charge group in which postures for different charges must be blazoned individually will not be allowed without period examples of that combination of postures." Precedent has said, "The charges here do not have comparable postures or orientations, but they also are not in a unified standard arrangement, as the two chisels in saltire must be blazoned separately from the crab in order to adequately describe their positioning. [William the Myllwright, R-Atenveldt, Dec 2012 LoAR]" However, does this precedent follow period practice? Commenters dug through many different armorials across all of Europe to find out.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Most cases of pairs of charges have a single pair of identical charges in saltire as the sole primary charge group. There were also examples of multiple pairs of identical charges in the same charge group. More uncommon were examples of non-identical charges in saltire, most typically a key or a sword and another charge, as they tended to be ecclesiastically related. There were no examples found of multiple pairs of non-identical charges in the same charge group.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">For an example of multiple pairs of charges in the same design, the arms of the Worshipful Company of Fishmongers, granted in 1512, are Azure, three dolphins naiant embowed in pale argent finned toothed and crowned Or between two pairs of stockfish in saltire argent over the mouth of each fish a crown Or, on a chief gules three pairs of keys of St Peter in saltire.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Most cases of a sheaf of charges were sheaves of arrows. There were other examples of three identical charges arranged in a sheaf, and a few example of two charges in saltire surmounted by a different charge palewise, again typically ecclesiastical in nature, such as two keys in saltire surmounted by a crozier. Again, the vast majority of examples were of a single sheaf as the sole primary charge group.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">For an example of multiple sheaves of charges in the same design, the arms of Nicholas Robinson, Bishop of Bangor from 1566-1585, are given by Parker as Azure, a chevron between three sheaves of arrows argent.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">It is tempting to consider a sheaf of charges as a single charge, but it is not: it has long been considered as heraldic shorthand for two charges in saltire surmounted by a third charge palewise, and the charges that make up the sheaf are counted individually for purposes of differencing by number. Likewise, while it is tempting to consider a pair of charges in saltire as a single charge, it is not; it is clearly two separate charges arranged in saltire. However, SENA A3D2c does not concern counting charges, merely their placement upon the field in a period arrangement.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Given the period examples, we are overturning past precedent forbidding the combination of a charge and two other charges in saltire, or other similar combinations. We will henceforth treat a pair of charges in saltire and a sheaf of charges as a single unit only for purposes of arrangement under SENA A3D2c. As always, the entire charge group must be in a blazonable period arrangement, such as two and one, in fess, in cross, etc.</span>
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/06/13-06cl.html]]</span>


====<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[#x--Precedents:-Registerability:]]<u>'''Registerability:'''</u></span>====
==Conflict:==  
<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">(Restricted, Reserved, SFPP, OOP)</span>


====<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[#x--Precedents:-Conflict:]]<u>'''Conflict:'''</u></span>====


==Identifiability:==


====<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[#x--Precedents:-Identifiability:]]<u>'''Identifiability:'''</u></span>====


==Collected Precedents:==
* 2nd Tenure of Elisabeth de Rossignol (April 2011 - August 2011) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/elisabeth/armory2.html Collected Armory Precedents]
* 1st Tenure of Elisabeth de Rossignol (May 2005 - July 2008) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/elisabeth/armory.html#SALTIRE SALTIRE]
* 2nd Tenure of François la Flamme (October 2004 - May 2005) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/goodbye.cgi?url=http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/sca/armoryprec.html Collected Armory Precedents]
* The Tenure of Shauna of Carrick Point (May 2004 - August 2004) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/shauna/armory.html Collected Armory Precedents]
* 1st Tenure of François la Flamme (August 2001 - April 2004) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/francois/wreath.html Collected Armory Precedents]
* The Tenure of Elsbeth Anne Roth (June 1999 - July 2001) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/elsbeth/armory.html Collected Armory Precedents]
* The Tenure of Jaelle of Armida (June 1996 - June 1999) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/jaeprec.html Single HTML Document]
* 2nd Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (November 1993 - June 1996) -
** [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/daud2/volume3.html the 1st part (Nov 1993 - June 1994)] and
** [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/daud2/daudIITOC.html the 2nd part (July 1994 - June 1996)]
* The Tenure of Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme (June 1992 - October 1993) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/bruce/ Collected precedents]
* 1st Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (June 1990 - June 1992) -
**  [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/daud/daud1toc.html the 1st year (June 1990 - June 1991)] and
**  [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/daud/daud1btoc.html the 2nd year (July 1991 - June 1992)]
* The Tenure of Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane (September 1986 - June 1990) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/alisoun/AMETOP.html Collected Precedents]
* The Tenure of Baldwin of Erebor (August 1984 - August 1986) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/baldwin.html Single HTML Document]
* The Tenure of Wilhelm von Schlüssel (August 1979 - August 1984) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/wilhelm/volume3.html Collected Precedents]
* The Tenure of Karina of the Far West (December 1975 - June 1979) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/karina/volume2.html Collected Precedents]
* The Early Days (June 1971 - June 1975) - [http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/early/volume1.html Collected Precedents]


====<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">[[#x--Precedents:-Collected Precedents:]]'''<u>Collected Precedents:</u>'''</span>====
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">Tenure of Elisabeth de Rossignol (May 2005 - July 2008)</span>'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"> - </span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;">[[http://heraldry.sca.org/precedents/elisabeth/armory.html#SALTIRE|SALTIRE]]</span>
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The 2nd Tenure of François la Flamme (October 2004 - May 2005) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Shauna of Carrick Point (May 2004 - August 2004) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of François la Flamme (August 2001 - April 2004) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Elsbeth Anne Roth (June 1999 - July 2001) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Jaelle of Armida (June 1996 - June 1999) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The 2nd Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (November 1993 - June 1996) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme (June 1992 - October 1993) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The 1st Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (June 1990 - June 1992) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane (September 1986 - June 1990) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Baldwin of Erebor (August 1984 - August 1986) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Wilhelm von Schlüssel (August 1979 - August 1984) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Tenure of Karina of the Far West (December 1975 - June 1979) -</span>'''
'''<span style="background-color: #ffffff;">The Early Days (June 1971 - June 1975) -</span>'''




===The [[scaheraldry/Ordinary|Ordinary ]]:===  
=The Ordinary ]]:=  
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%2a9|Saltire - As charge]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%2a9 Saltire - As charge]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3aplain%20line%3auncharged|Saltire - Throughout - Uncharged - Plain line]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3aplain%20line%3auncharged Saltire - Throughout - Uncharged - Plain line]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3acomplex%20line%3auncharged|Saltire - Throughout - Uncharged - Complex line]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3acomplex%20line%3auncharged Saltire - Throughout - Uncharged - Complex line]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3aplain%20line%3acharged|Saltire - Throughout - Charged - Plain line]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3aplain%20line%3acharged Saltire - Throughout - Charged - Plain line]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3acomplex%20line%3acharged|Saltire - Throughout - Charged - Complex line]]
* [[http://oanda.sca.org/oanda_desc.cgi?p=SALTIRE%3acomplex%20line%3acharged Saltire - Throughout - Charged - Complex line]]
* Saltorel - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/S.html#saltire|Saltire]]
* Saltorel - see [[http://oanda.sca.org/ordinary/S.html#saltire Saltire]]


----
[[Category:Armory]] [[Category:Charges]] [[Category:Field Divisions]]
<span style="background-color: #eef3f6; color: #222222; font-family: monospace;">Created {$creationdate}</span>

Latest revision as of 17:42, 18 January 2019

WARNING: Do not cite this page as a reference. This page is on this wiki only to make the content "searchable" and easier to find. If you find the information you seek here, go to the original sources as linked below to verify the information and use them for your documentation.


Illustrations:[edit | edit source]

Period source/s:[edit | edit source]

https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10561671_10204708436085174_7666224630010275525_n.jpg?oh=88e923ee145c89d2332f708505080559&oe=55DE845B
Siebmacher, 1605, plate 33, Unverzagt, per saltire with four charges. FB image courtesy of Bruce Draconarius. "Per saltire Or and sable, in pale two lion's faces sable and in fess two fleurs-de-lys argent."

Unlike Objects in saltire[edit | edit source]

ArlbergBroStChristopher_axe_brewers_scoop.jpg
Arlberg Brotherhood of St. Christopher (Virgil Raber), 1548, axe and brewer's scoop. Image courtesy of Bruce Draconarius

Modern[edit | edit source]

Pictorial Dictionary of SCA Heraldry (3rd edition):[edit | edit source]

Pennsic Traceable Art Project


Sources:[edit | edit source]




Precedents:[edit | edit source]

Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/precedents.html

Morsulus Heralds Website - http://www.morsulus.org/ (to search the LoARs and Precedents)

Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents.

Definition:[edit | edit source]

June 2013 Cover Letter - Handling Pairs and Sheaves in Arrangements[edit | edit source]

Commenters were asked to discuss how best to handle sheaves or pairs of charges combined with other charges in the same charge group. SENA A3D2c requires charges in a group to be in identical postures/orientations or in an arrangement that includes posture/orientation. It also states, "A charge group in which postures for different charges must be blazoned individually will not be allowed without period examples of that combination of postures." Precedent has said, "The charges here do not have comparable postures or orientations, but they also are not in a unified standard arrangement, as the two chisels in saltire must be blazoned separately from the crab in order to adequately describe their positioning. [William the Myllwright, R-Atenveldt, Dec 2012 LoAR]" However, does this precedent follow period practice? Commenters dug through many different armorials across all of Europe to find out.

Most cases of pairs of charges have a single pair of identical charges in saltire as the sole primary charge group. There were also examples of multiple pairs of identical charges in the same charge group. More uncommon were examples of non-identical charges in saltire, most typically a key or a sword and another charge, as they tended to be ecclesiastically related. There were no examples found of multiple pairs of non-identical charges in the same charge group.

For an example of multiple pairs of charges in the same design, the arms of the Worshipful Company of Fishmongers, granted in 1512, are Azure, three dolphins naiant embowed in pale argent finned toothed and crowned Or between two pairs of stockfish in saltire argent over the mouth of each fish a crown Or, on a chief gules three pairs of keys of St Peter in saltire.

Most cases of a sheaf of charges were sheaves of arrows. There were other examples of three identical charges arranged in a sheaf, and a few example of two charges in saltire surmounted by a different charge palewise, again typically ecclesiastical in nature, such as two keys in saltire surmounted by a crozier. Again, the vast majority of examples were of a single sheaf as the sole primary charge group.

For an example of multiple sheaves of charges in the same design, the arms of Nicholas Robinson, Bishop of Bangor from 1566-1585, are given by Parker as Azure, a chevron between three sheaves of arrows argent.<

It is tempting to consider a sheaf of charges as a single charge, but it is not: it has long been considered as heraldic shorthand for two charges in saltire surmounted by a third charge palewise, and the charges that make up the sheaf are counted individually for purposes of differencing by number. Likewise, while it is tempting to consider a pair of charges in saltire as a single charge, it is not; it is clearly two separate charges arranged in saltire. However, SENA A3D2c does not concern counting charges, merely their placement upon the field in a period arrangement.

Given the period examples, we are overturning past precedent forbidding the combination of a charge and two other charges in saltire, or other similar combinations. We will henceforth treat a pair of charges in saltire and a sheaf of charges as a single unit only for purposes of arrangement under SENA A3D2c. As always, the entire charge group must be in a blazonable period arrangement, such as two and one, in fess, in cross, etc. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/06/13-06cl.html

Registerability:[edit | edit source]

(Restricted, Reserved, SFPP, OOP)

Conflict:[edit | edit source]

Identifiability:[edit | edit source]

Collected Precedents:[edit | edit source]


The Ordinary ]]:[edit | edit source]