Fish

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See also Sea Creatures

Illustrations:

Period:

Rays:

Macclesfield Pierpoint
Macclesfield Psalter c1330, skate Pierpoint Morgan MA3900 f47, early 1590s, manta ra

Attired fish, winged fish, fish head:

Siebmacher Armorial-de-Gelre1370wingedfish.JPG Siebmacher, BSBCsg9210_f72r_ululantfishhead.jpg
Siebmacher 1605, plate 63, Die Gutten, stag fish Armorial de Gelre, 1370, winged fish Siebmacher, 1605, plate 69, winged fish BSB Csg 9210 Grunenburg Wappenbuch, 1602-04, f72r, fish head ululant ?

Dolphin, sardines on a bend, woman windsurfing a fish:

Grunenberg Livro BSBCsg9210_f03_fish-surfing-lady.PNG
Grunenberg Wappenbuch, BSB Csg 9210, 1602-04, f68, dolphin vs. elephant-fish vs sea-elephant Livro do Armeiro Mor, 1506-09, Portugal, f129, river of sardines BSB Csg 9210, Grunenberg Wappenbuch, 1602-04, f03, fish surfing lady

Fish interlaced, fish on a stringer, fish skeleton:

Guillim1611_fish-interlaced.jpg https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11043015_10205847119919122_4506321123448156180_n.jpg?oh=e4e89a4f4260dee5041852ac6698fea3&oe=55DB7721 Siebmacher
Fish interlaced Siebmacher 1605, stringer of fish and fleurs, FB image courtesy of Rayne Evynwod. Siebmacher Plate 197, fish skeleton

Modern:

PicDic:

http:mistholme.com/dictionary/barbel/ http://mistholme.com/dictionary/dolphin/ http:mistholme.com/dictionary/fish/


Brickbat's Armorial Stash:

Pennsic Traceable Art Project

SENA Appendix L:

A Partial List of Postures and Orientations

This is a list of postures and orientations that can be used to determine whether two charges or groups of charges conflict or whether there is a distinct change for posture/orientation.

Animate Charges

D. Fish: The postures listed within each group generally conflict, though a distinct change may be given for facing to dexter or to sinister.

  • haurient, urinant
  • naiant

F. Sea creatures and other Erect-Default Creatures: This category is for sea creatures and other creatures whose default is erect. The postures listed within each group generally conflict.

  • erect

Precedents:

Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - [[3]] Morsulus Heralds Website - [[4]] (to search the LoARs and Precedents) Restatement Wiki - [[5]] (restatements of Precedents) Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents.

Definition:

December 2013 - dolphin posture:

From Wreath: Dancing Dolphins This month a ruling had us examining heraldic dolphins more closely. Precedent has long held that there is no DC for the difference in facing of a dolphin to dexter or sinister when it is haurient or urinant (in a vertical orientation). This precedent traces back to a ruling made in May 1992: > [a dolphin urinant contourny versus a dolphin urinant] There is...nothing for reversing the fish in this position... [Isabeau Bonheur, R-Caid, May 1992 LoAR] The Glossary of Terms states that the default posture for a heraldic dolphin is naiant (in a horizontal orientation). It says nothing about whether or not the body is straight, embowed, or embowed-counterembowed, and we do not typically grant difference for these variations. A random examination of registrations both old and recent show that the typical depiction for heraldic dolphins is embowed-counterembowed, as expected, and so we are explicitly adding that to the default posture for heraldic dolphins, regardless of their orientation on the field. ... If the dolphin is drawn in such a manner that it is difficult to tell which way it is facing, as in the May 1992 submission, it will be returned for redraw. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/12/13-12cl.html

September 2011 - manta ray default posture:

#70Tiberius Octavius Bellicianus. Per chevron inverted Or and gules, in chief a manta ray bendwise sable. ...The use of the posture tergiant is a step from period practice for most fish, but it is the default posture for flat fish such as skates and rays. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/09/11-09lar.html


Registerability (Restricted, Reserved, SFPP, OOP):

September 2011 - manta ray:

#70Tiberius Octavius Bellicianus. Per chevron inverted Or and gules, in chief a manta ray bendwise sable. Based on the presentation of evidence of period citations in Europe of manta rays, the use of a manta ray is no longer a step from period practice. The use of the posture tergiant is a step from period practice for most fish, but it is the default posture for flat fish such as skates and rays. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2011/09/11-09lar.html


Conflict:

December 2013 - dolphins facing:

From Wreath: Dancing Dolphins This month a ruling had us examining heraldic dolphins more closely. Precedent has long held that there is no DC for the difference in facing of a dolphin to dexter or sinister when it is haurient or urinant (in a vertical orientation). This precedent traces back to a ruling made in May 1992: > [a dolphin urinant contourny versus a dolphin urinant] There is...nothing for reversing the fish in this position... [Isabeau Bonheur, R-Caid, May 1992 LoAR] ... An examination of the two devices in conflict in May 1992 shows that while the registered dolphin was embowed-counterembowed, the submitted one was nearly straight. It does seem reasonable to grant no difference for the facing to dexter or sinister for a straight fish haurient or urinant. However, as a well-drawn dolphin has a distinct head, even when the degree of embowing is small, we are able to tell in which direction it is facing; therefore we are explicitly overturning precedent with regards to dolphins, and will grant difference for facing. This is analogous to our ruling in July 2013, that granted a DC between haurient or urinant as "dolphins have a distinct enough head to distinguish whether the head is to chief, as in haurient, or to base, as in urinant." If the dolphin is drawn in such a manner that it is difficult to tell which way it is facing, as in the May 1992 submission, it will be returned for redraw. http://heraldry.sca.org/loar/2013/12/13-12cl.html

Identifiability:

Collected Precedents:

Tenure of Elisabeth de Rossignol (May 2005 - July 2008) - [and DOLPHIN and WHALE] The 2nd Tenure of François la Flamme (October 2004 - May 2005) - [and DOLPHIN] The Tenure of Shauna of Carrick Point (May 2004 - August 2004) - The Tenure of François la Flamme (August 2001 - April 2004) - The Tenure of Elsbeth Anne Roth (June 1999 - July 2001) - The Tenure of Jaelle of Armida (June 1996 - June 1999) - The 2nd Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (November 1993 - June 1996) - The Tenure of Bruce Draconarius of Mistholme (June 1992 - October 1993) - The 1st Tenure of Da'ud ibn Auda (June 1990 - June 1992) - The Tenure of Alisoun MacCoul of Elphane (September 1986 - June 1990) - The Tenure of Baldwin of Erebor (August 1984 - August 1986) - The Tenure of Wilhelm von Schlüssel (August 1979 - August 1984) - [[6]] The Tenure of Karina of the Far West (December 1975 - June 1979) - The Early Days (June 1971 - June 1975) -

In the Ordinary:

#fishother#fishwhale#fishseahorse#fishray#fishdolphin#fishangelfish

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