Ian, Iain

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Period Forms:[edit | edit source]

  • Name - type of name (eg. English feminine give name), date, source.


Other Potential Sources:[edit | edit source]




Precedents:[edit | edit source]

  • Precedents of the SCA College of Arms - [[1]]
  • Morsulus Heralds Website - [[2]] (to search the LoARs and Precedents)
  • Use the above links to be sure any precedents listed below haven't been superseded by newer precedents.

Registerability:[edit | edit source]

From Pelican: No More SCA-Compatibility On the May 2008 Cover Letter, we ruled: > Therefore, as of the May 2009 decisions meetings, we declare that no new name elements or name patterns will be ruled SCA-compatible, that all names previously ruled SCA-compatible are no longer SCA-compatible and that in order for them to be registered, documentation meeting the same standards as for non-SCA-compatible names will be required. This ruling went into effect with this, the May 2009 Pelican meeting. [[3]]

Conflict:[edit | edit source]

From the <month> <year> LoAR:

Collected Precedents:[edit | edit source]

http://heraldry.sca.org/laurel/precedents/CompiledNamePrecedents/Compatible.html

Ian, Iain
Shauna of Carrick Point 2004.05 Ian has been ruled SCA-compatible. [Ian Gordon, 05/04, A-Meridies]
François la Flamme 2003.10 Submitted as Ian MacPherson of Lee, the submitter requested authenticity for Scottish and allowed any changes. Ian is a post-period Scots form of John. Aryanhwy merch Catmael found period Scots forms of this name:

As Iohn is the closest of these to the submitted Ian, we have changed the given name to Iohn in order to meet the submitter's request for authenticity. [Iohn MacPherson of Lee, 10/2003, A-An Tir]

François la Flamme 2003.02 Submitted as Iain MacPhilip, this name had two weirdnesses, which has been reason for return. There was one weirdness for use of an SCA-compatible name (Iain). There was also a weirdness for combining Gaelic and Scots (a language closely related to English) in a name. As the submitter allows any changes, we have changed the Gaelic form Iain to the Scots form Ian in order to render this name a single language. As the form Ian MacPhilip has only a single weirdness for use of the SCA-compatible name Ian, it is registerable. [Ian MacPhilip, 02/2003 LoAR, A-Calontir]
François la Flamme 2002.09 Submitted as Iain mac Caradoc, the submitter requested authenticity for 15th C Scots and allowed any changes. Iain is a Gaelic masculine given name, ruled SCA compatible in April 1997. However, no evidence has yet been found that it was used in period. The submitted byname mac Caradoc combined the Scots or Anglicized Irish particle mac with the Welsh name Caradoc. RfS III.1.a requires linguistic consistency in a single name phrase. Therefore, the phrase mac Caradoc is in violation of this rule and is not registerable. No examples were found of any form of Caradoc in either Gaelic or Scots (a language closely related to English). Therefore, we have changed the byname to the form Cradoc, which is a plausible form based on the examples of Philip Craddoc dated to 1205 and Robert Cradock dated to 1301, both in England, in Reaney & Wilson (p. 114 s.n. Craddock). Morgan & Morgan (p. 67 s.n. Caradog) explain that the change in this name from Caradoc to Cradoc forms is due to an accent shift in early Welsh. Use of an element that is only SCA compatible (Iain in this case) counts as a weirdness. Combining English and Gaelic in a single name is also a weirdness. To avoid having two weirdnesses in this name, which would cause the return of this name, we have changed the given name to the form Ian, which is also SCA compatible. Since Ian is Scots, and mixing Scots and English in a single name carries no weirdness for the lingual mix, Ian Cradoc is a registerable form of the submitted name. [Ian Cradoc, 09/2002 LoAR, A-Atenveldt]
François la Flamme 2001.10 Ian has been ruled SCA-compatible. [Ian MacClennan, 08/01, A-Caid]
François la Flamme 2001.10 Ian was ruled SCA-compatible in April of 1997. [Ian Duncanson, 09/01, A-Caid]
Elsbeth Anne Roth 2000.07 ... the name Iain, while ruled SCA compatible, is not attested in period. [Iain Bán Menzies, 07/00, R-Atlantia]
Elsbeth Anne Roth 1999.10 Arval Benicoeur's article, "Concerning the Names Iain, Ian, and Eoin" mentions the name Eithne ingen Iain i nOchtur Aird in a 12th century Irish Gaelic document. There are other references to Iain (as a genitive form), but they were part of religious names. Nevertheless given the single citation, combined with the fact that Iain is otherwise SCA compatible, we will registered names containing mac Iain or inghean Iain. [Gavin MacIain, 10/99, A-Ansteorra]
Elsbeth Anne Roth 1999.10 Submitted as Ian MacEanruig, that name contains two weirdnesses: it uses a post-period anglicization of a Gaelic name and mixes Gaelic and English orthographies. [Ian MacHenrik, 10/99, A-An Tir]
Elsbeth Anne Roth 1999.09 [Ian Marcaiche] This name contains two weirdness: an SCA-compatible given name, and the combination of English and Gaelic orthographies in one name. [Ian Marcaiche, 09/99, R-Outlands]
Jaelle of Armida 1998.02 [Ian Griffen the Archer] Submitted as Iain Griffen the Archer, Iain is a Gaelic spelling of which cannot be combined with an English name. We have substituted the Anglicized spelling, Ian. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR February 1998, p. 2)
Jaelle of Armida 1997.04 [registering the given name Ian] [Ian Mac Tawisch] It is not clear as to whether this spelling of Ian is a period form. While we would like to see some conclusive research on this subject, we also feel that this is a name that is popular in the SCA. Since it has been registered over 100 times, we are declaring it SCA compatible, and hope that further research will prove that this was unnecessary. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR April 1997, p. 11)
Jaelle of Armida 1997.04 registering the given name Iain] [Iain Kyle the Red] It is not clear as to whether this spelling of Iain is a period form. While we would like to see some conclusive research on this subject, we also feel that this is a name that is popular in the SCA. Since it has been registered over 40 times, we are declaring it SCA compatible, and hope that further research will prove that this was unnecessary. (Jaelle of Armida, LoAR April 1997, p. 8)
Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year) 1996.04 It seems increasingly doubtful that English Ian is a period form. (The status of Gaelic Iain is less clear.) Black has relevant information in his articles on Macaneduff, Macanemoyll, Macian, Mackain, Mackean, and Iain, in his introduction, and doubtless elsewhere as well. In these we find Mackaneduff 1498 'son of black John'; here the John element is the part spelled ane. In 1559 we find the same spelling in M'Anevoill 'son of bald John'. Mackain and Mackean are forms of Macian; some actual citations are McAan and McAyn 1519, M'Ean 1538, M'Kaine 1601, M'Kane 1480, Makkaane 1570, and McKeane 1600. Finally, Black notes that Iain replaced an older Eoin but unfortunately does not say when this occurred. The English spellings suggest a variety of pronunciations ranging from 'ay-un' to '(y)ahn', but not modern 'EE-un'. Whatever the pronunciation, however, it appears that the usual English spellings were Ean and Ane when the name wasn't simply replaced by John. (This last seems to have been usual in the case of given names.) On the available evidence, Ian doesn't rate the benefit of the doubt, but much of the evidence is fairly indirect; can anyone add to it? (Talan Gwynek, Cover Letter to the April 1996 LoAR, pp. 2-3)
Da'ud ibn Auda (2nd tenure, 2nd year) 1996.04 There is by now considerable evidence that Ian is a post-period form, and in future we may not wish to accept it; see the Cover Letter for more details. For now, however, we have given the name the benefit of the doubt. (Talan Gwynek, LoAR April 1996, p. 10)


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